I'm interested in reading Doppelganger now, having read your review.
I hadn't heard of the people you refer to, apart from the two Rachels of course, but I hope to explore further.
What I find intriguing about conspiracy theories is how the people who promulgate them believe themselves to be immune, which means in effect that THEY are members of an elite! How ironic, and rather a pity that the irony is lost on them
"There is a desperation in all certainty" is such a shrewd observation. I always think of the old lyric "the only people I fear are those who never have doubts" (from a Billy Joel song called Shades of Grey). It's also a kind of deep immaturity, wanting to know someone is in control of all the bad things and if they are stopped all will be well, as opposed to accepting life is messy and taking personal responsibility.
It's interesting isn't it that we want to trust that someone has the answers and is getting it right for us. That's what I've been thinking about in relation to the Covid Enquiry that's currently ongoing, where it's clear none of the politicians or civil servants had a flippin' clue what to do, no direction, no plan, they were all just bumbling through behind the scenes, infighting whilst issuing statements that sounded like they knew what they were talking about. Uncertainty is essential, but can we collectively accept leaders who admit uncertainty? I'm not sure our culture is set up for that.
I think a significant part of the culture would appreciate and accept the honesty of leaders who say "we know this much and no more, we can guarantee this but not that", but it's true that this is offset by unrealistic expectations and that trust as well as connection to reality are being actively eroded. Perhaps this is what a generation-long period of prosperity does to a culture, the awareness that we don't really control life just passes away and is replaced by entitlement and attachment to the status quo.
A thought about democracy and information/conspiracy theories, etc. Maybe it's more an observation. Much of what was labeled conspiracy theory regarding covid and the vaccines has proven to not be. I tend to take the position of "wait a while" to see how things pan out. I advise this with all "news" media, aka, narrative control.
That said, I'm a big free speech advocate. Especially, including, speech I don't like. Or agree with. I believe in actual democracies (where I live is not a democracy), free speech is a keystone value. You cannot have democracy without free speech.
As for information versus misinformation and other types of speech, who decides what speech is information and what speech is disinformation or conspiracy theory?
It becomes a slippery slope rather quickly. All one has to do is look to the larger social media platforms to see what happens to free speech. I'd rather be the one deciding what I get to listen to, who I get to read or watch or listen to, than those who are currently doing the deciding, aka, censoring.
I agree with you that I want to be the one deciding what I get to pay attention to. I'm not an absolutist on free speech (yet) but for the reasons you raise about the problem of who is in charge of the censoring I am extremely cautious of any sort of censorship at all. In fact I think we need to pay close attention to what get censored, why and by whom. Nevertheless I do believe in material realities and facts, and even though facts can of course be interpreted in different ways (I'm an historian), I'm attentive to the motives of people who pretend black is white when they know full well black isn't white. What power are they trying to maintain or gain?
That's an easy question for me since all our mainstream media over here is under the control of roughly 6 billionaires. It's control of the media, aka, the narrative. After all, if one controls the stream of information people consume, one can control all sorts of things --like how we think. Or to squash or thwart dissent. Manipulate elections. And so on.
Can we add 6 'white male middle class' before billionaires Yes. Agree. It's all deeply troubling. Is this why you don't believe you live in a democracy?
It's really not a question of belief, it's a matter of fact that the U.S. is not a democracy. It never was. Ideally it was a democratic republic. Voting, or the farce thereof (who decides who we vote for? It's not the people), is merely a democratic act at best. Third and fourth parties are never allowed into "debates." And they rarely make it onto the ballots because of all the restrictions. There's no real difference between the two parties. They have their hot button issues they recycle and run on, but in the end they unilaterally fund war and benefit the donor class. We can't even get decent health care lined up for the citizens. I could go on. The ex-president, Jimmy Carter has defined the U.S. in recent years as an oligarchy. I'd call it a plutocratic oligarchy on a good day.
Yes, perhaps. My understanding about Russia, well, the Soviet Era Russia, was that the people were well aware of their circumstances. Which is why many who lived through it have said they knew the media was statist propaganda. I don't believe many Americans are aware of what's been happening for at least the past 40 years. I also think that the U.S. is, if not already, sliding very quickly into fascism. It's a scary time for those of us old enough to remember 40 or 50 years back. And I think this brings us back to the issue of "The Narrative" and who controls it and why --and the dangers thereof.
I was just listening to a Naomi Klein interview! I have been thinking about this topic quite a bit recently, once again you have given me even more to think about.
Such a thought provoking topic. I hadn’t considered art’s role in exposing and investigating conspiracy theories. The Klein video is quite powerful as well. There’s a lot of Freud’s Uncanny in this post.
Congrats on the award shortlist! Such a huge accomplishment. 🎉
Thank you. This might be the nudge i needed to buy Naomi Klein's book. Will watch the videos on a bigger screen. And fully agree with the conclusion about uncertainty.
Congratulations on being shortlisted.
I'm interested in reading Doppelganger now, having read your review.
I hadn't heard of the people you refer to, apart from the two Rachels of course, but I hope to explore further.
What I find intriguing about conspiracy theories is how the people who promulgate them believe themselves to be immune, which means in effect that THEY are members of an elite! How ironic, and rather a pity that the irony is lost on them
That's exactly it, Terry! The irony of it.
Congratulations on the podcast being shortlisted!
Thanks Annick!
Many congratulations, Victoria!
Thanks!
"There is a desperation in all certainty" is such a shrewd observation. I always think of the old lyric "the only people I fear are those who never have doubts" (from a Billy Joel song called Shades of Grey). It's also a kind of deep immaturity, wanting to know someone is in control of all the bad things and if they are stopped all will be well, as opposed to accepting life is messy and taking personal responsibility.
It's interesting isn't it that we want to trust that someone has the answers and is getting it right for us. That's what I've been thinking about in relation to the Covid Enquiry that's currently ongoing, where it's clear none of the politicians or civil servants had a flippin' clue what to do, no direction, no plan, they were all just bumbling through behind the scenes, infighting whilst issuing statements that sounded like they knew what they were talking about. Uncertainty is essential, but can we collectively accept leaders who admit uncertainty? I'm not sure our culture is set up for that.
I think a significant part of the culture would appreciate and accept the honesty of leaders who say "we know this much and no more, we can guarantee this but not that", but it's true that this is offset by unrealistic expectations and that trust as well as connection to reality are being actively eroded. Perhaps this is what a generation-long period of prosperity does to a culture, the awareness that we don't really control life just passes away and is replaced by entitlement and attachment to the status quo.
YES: 'the awareness that we don't really control life just passes away and is replaced by entitlement and attachment to the status quo'
A thought about democracy and information/conspiracy theories, etc. Maybe it's more an observation. Much of what was labeled conspiracy theory regarding covid and the vaccines has proven to not be. I tend to take the position of "wait a while" to see how things pan out. I advise this with all "news" media, aka, narrative control.
That said, I'm a big free speech advocate. Especially, including, speech I don't like. Or agree with. I believe in actual democracies (where I live is not a democracy), free speech is a keystone value. You cannot have democracy without free speech.
As for information versus misinformation and other types of speech, who decides what speech is information and what speech is disinformation or conspiracy theory?
It becomes a slippery slope rather quickly. All one has to do is look to the larger social media platforms to see what happens to free speech. I'd rather be the one deciding what I get to listen to, who I get to read or watch or listen to, than those who are currently doing the deciding, aka, censoring.
I agree with you that I want to be the one deciding what I get to pay attention to. I'm not an absolutist on free speech (yet) but for the reasons you raise about the problem of who is in charge of the censoring I am extremely cautious of any sort of censorship at all. In fact I think we need to pay close attention to what get censored, why and by whom. Nevertheless I do believe in material realities and facts, and even though facts can of course be interpreted in different ways (I'm an historian), I'm attentive to the motives of people who pretend black is white when they know full well black isn't white. What power are they trying to maintain or gain?
That's an easy question for me since all our mainstream media over here is under the control of roughly 6 billionaires. It's control of the media, aka, the narrative. After all, if one controls the stream of information people consume, one can control all sorts of things --like how we think. Or to squash or thwart dissent. Manipulate elections. And so on.
Can we add 6 'white male middle class' before billionaires Yes. Agree. It's all deeply troubling. Is this why you don't believe you live in a democracy?
It's really not a question of belief, it's a matter of fact that the U.S. is not a democracy. It never was. Ideally it was a democratic republic. Voting, or the farce thereof (who decides who we vote for? It's not the people), is merely a democratic act at best. Third and fourth parties are never allowed into "debates." And they rarely make it onto the ballots because of all the restrictions. There's no real difference between the two parties. They have their hot button issues they recycle and run on, but in the end they unilaterally fund war and benefit the donor class. We can't even get decent health care lined up for the citizens. I could go on. The ex-president, Jimmy Carter has defined the U.S. in recent years as an oligarchy. I'd call it a plutocratic oligarchy on a good day.
Sounds like you're describing Russia
Yes, perhaps. My understanding about Russia, well, the Soviet Era Russia, was that the people were well aware of their circumstances. Which is why many who lived through it have said they knew the media was statist propaganda. I don't believe many Americans are aware of what's been happening for at least the past 40 years. I also think that the U.S. is, if not already, sliding very quickly into fascism. It's a scary time for those of us old enough to remember 40 or 50 years back. And I think this brings us back to the issue of "The Narrative" and who controls it and why --and the dangers thereof.
I was just listening to a Naomi Klein interview! I have been thinking about this topic quite a bit recently, once again you have given me even more to think about.
Congratulations on the podcast recognition!
Thanks Gillian! Klein's great to listen to, so articulate.
Such a thought provoking topic. I hadn’t considered art’s role in exposing and investigating conspiracy theories. The Klein video is quite powerful as well. There’s a lot of Freud’s Uncanny in this post.
Congrats on the award shortlist! Such a huge accomplishment. 🎉
Yes to Freud's Uncanny! I like how she describes it as a mirror land.
Thank you. This might be the nudge i needed to buy Naomi Klein's book. Will watch the videos on a bigger screen. And fully agree with the conclusion about uncertainty.
Thanks for reading Pierre. Buy the book and let me know what you think!
Congratulations Victoria! That’s really awesome!
Thanks Sam!