Thank you for this piece, Victoria. I watched both videos last week. I watched the shorter video first and enjoyed it with my own interpretation and questions. Listening to his reason of making the video in the longer video helped me appreciate his take on life. I also appreciate his answer about what he does. To me it’s an attempt to educate and make people think a bit more instead of just placing the artist label on self.
That is THE question, isn't it? What makes something "art"? Yes, I would agree that all art is some form of commentary. But for me, I art also requires a demonstration of some skill and imagination on the part of the artist, beyond pure reproduction or manipulation of material. So the peanut butter on toast "sculpture" is a reproduction of something from everyday life, but simply created from different materials. There is no composition, no skillful or creative alteration of the original object or creative expression of the original object. Nothing that overtly challenges the viewer to understand or think about the piece. It looks like a piece of peanut butter toast. What am I supposed to make of that? (And, yes, I am one of those people who shakes their head in disbelief at many modern and avant garden presentations of so-called "art".). This could be a VERY long discussion!!!
I do agree that some degree of imagination is important in art. Traditional hand-making skills not so much (for me, anyway), although I enjoy them when they are present in an artwork. I'm not sure I agree that Peanut Butter on Toast has no composition, skill or creative expression of the original object though. I think it has all of those elements! The materials he has chosen bring plenty of meaning in themselves, then you combine them with the representation of an everyday ephemeral cheap food item (toast and spread), which contrasts sharply with the permanence and grandeur of the material. And then there's the artist's intention, the story about the monks that inspired the work. And then there's Creed's own story as an artist. All of these layers I think bring something interesting to it (for me, personally) and speak of ideas of meaning and value in our world. Which is what I value the most in art. But I get that art is subjective, and everyone looks for different things and sees art differently.
Another brilliant post, Victoria. I really enjoyed your interpretations of Creed's work -- you bring such interesting perspectives and make me look in different ways. The You Return video made total sense after reading your summary and listening to Martin talk about what it all means for him. Loved it! Thanks
It’s so uplifting to see the affection you have for this artist. I’m going to have to find some more to read on him. Peanut Butter on Toast is amazing and for something so simple it connects in so many ways!
Really enjoying these philosophical and personal questions about art, Victoria. Creed’s multicoloured “everything is going to be alright” adorns the Christchurch main art gallery. We visited my brother-in-law’s family there when my son was just 10 months. It was a transitional time for me and I was also in the middle of a massive travel journey; I recall feeling so much comfort and joy in those words and just kind of kept staring at them. I don’t remember much else about the city to be honest. Not a knock, just to say sometimes the repetition you speak of strikes a human cord.
What a lovely story... did you know that the artwork was by Martin Creed or did you recognise it later? There's a piece by Creed at Tate Modern that I always see, which reads 'The Whole World + The Work = The Whole World' which I have seen and noticed for years and only recently found out it was by him.
I'm particularly bad at repeating things. I mean, it can be a problem for me sometimes!
Repetition is a soothing thing for me sometimes, going over and over something even though I've worked it out a million times. Or counting the same numbers over again to calm down. That's what I mean by repetition being bad. If I was recontextualising or reworking something that would be an achievement, and sounds way better than what goes on in my mind!
I have always related to Martin's art and drawn to his authentic straightforward approach. Totally get the relief part as a maker but what kept coming up as I was listening to your piece was maybe he was searching for peace too and using his art making as a vehicle. I agree he has interwoven his life into making meaningful art. Really enjoyed listening to your point of view about his work and seeing examples to make it concrete. It was really good!
Thanks for your lovely words, Sadie. I agree with you, there's a search for peace which he doesn't seem to find. But every day he feels compelled to try. The way he speaks about it sounds bleak, but the works he produces are not.
2 post here. Having had time to think I’d like to say that there seems to be a connection between Creeds nihilism and Calvinism. This fierce fundamentalist attitude to life is the backdrop of many religions but I’ve seen it play out first hand in extreme Protestantism.
Personally it’s too hard and even intolerant. I prefer to have a philosophy of eclecticism.
Can others reply to this please with their thoughts? D
Creed is pretty gloomy about life in the interview, but the art that he makes is more ambiguous than that, and in fact it often seems quite joyful rather than hard. That You Return piece, for example, doesn't seem hard or intolerant, it feels very hopeful -- and in fact embracing of the eclectic.
I know what you mean, Diana, although I'm not sure I would characterise Creed's expression as nihilism. I definitely get the sense that he struggles with his mental health, and art offers him the lifeline to keep on track. But perhaps I'm reading his words wrongly, I don't know. What I do think, however, is that the word 'relief' absolutely sums it up for me in terms of how I feel when I connect with an artwork. I hadn't ever thought of it with that word before but I works for me. I feel that most often with music, sometimes with visual art. It's a feeling that I can't explain but it just makes me feel connected to another person. Less lonely, maybe.
Interesting, Sara. I would say all art is commentary of some kind, but would you agree with that? Could you perhaps expand on what fundamental elements you think art needs to have to be 'art' in your opinion?
Intriguing post. I think if one lives in fear as Creed seems to do, making art is one way of coping by exerting control through casting a kind of spell on the viewer. So Creed is right to say making art is like magic. That’s not the whole story but it’s a good part of it. But as his explanations went along I recognised that the works he talks about have a logic that is a strength .
I didn’t completely buy the hesitant awkwardness of his delivery. He has been in the game long enough to have worked his stuff out pretty thoroughly I would have thought. His songs and his band are terrific. Available on Spotify too.
I really liked the quality of the filming; very close up etc and the direct questioning style of the interviewer.
Yes, I liked the way it was filmed. It didn't occur to me to think that he surely has worked out his stuff, and I'm sure you're right about that. That does make it sound like he was performing a well-trodden narrative, which perhaps he was. It felt pretty raw though, and although I've heard him say that making the things he creates makes him feel better, I haven't seen him talk about it in such stark terms. I definitely think there is a logic to his work as you say, which I can see quite clearly now in way I hadn't before. I like the music I've heard, and his strong Scottish accent.
I upgraded to a paid sub because I really wanted to read this piece, as I'm trying to grapple with what art is and its place in my own life as well. I loved reading Creed's idea of what he does everyday. That's very cool. And relatable. I don't know if I experience art as relief, more so like a means to get myself into paradise, and when I'm out of that headspace it's like I've fallen from paradise. But maybe we're just using different words to describe the same experience.
Welcome! So glad you've joined our community! I think what you're describing is not a million miles away from what Creed is expressing, except his language seems to have a darkness about it, a place that he's pulling himself out from with the act of making. You might like to read this piece I wrote back in the autumn last year on a similar subject of the value of art for artists -- some of the links might be of interest https://www.thegallerycompanion.com/p/art-for-artists-sake
I liked the way you wrote about his work. It was more palatable and simplified what he was trying to say in the interview. I felt he went down rabbit holes and I was getting lost in his thinking! However I did find his attitude to his work reassuring and gave meaning and comfort in my own work process.
The You Return work no 1701 initially I felt uncomfortable, voyeuristic but then it became less about the individual and more about the way human beings are amazing how they just keep going. Perhaps the music was the key to getting across the determination in all of us to live.
I agree completely with what you say about the You Return work. It's uncomfortable viewing at first, which turns into something quite wonderful. I love how he has managed to incorporate those two ends in the same work, possibly without intending it.
So poignant , and clever ! Thanks for sharing this work and interview. There is definitely some ambiguity there in the video, its voyeuristic nature ….however the clever direction and funny music make the piece easier to digest!
I think his premise of finding a way to cope with everyday gloom is genius!
But I wonder is there something missing in this way of looking out rather than inwards ….I think of ‘Ascent of Man’…. And wonder …
I interpreted Creed as being quite inward looking and that he uses art to look out of himself. But I might be misinterpreting his words. What seems clear though is that the need to create enables him to deal with what he perceives. I also love the ambiguity in the You Return video - there's a point where it moves seamlessly from voyeurism to joy!
Thanks for this insight Victoria...I love his work...
Thank you for this piece, Victoria. I watched both videos last week. I watched the shorter video first and enjoyed it with my own interpretation and questions. Listening to his reason of making the video in the longer video helped me appreciate his take on life. I also appreciate his answer about what he does. To me it’s an attempt to educate and make people think a bit more instead of just placing the artist label on self.
That is THE question, isn't it? What makes something "art"? Yes, I would agree that all art is some form of commentary. But for me, I art also requires a demonstration of some skill and imagination on the part of the artist, beyond pure reproduction or manipulation of material. So the peanut butter on toast "sculpture" is a reproduction of something from everyday life, but simply created from different materials. There is no composition, no skillful or creative alteration of the original object or creative expression of the original object. Nothing that overtly challenges the viewer to understand or think about the piece. It looks like a piece of peanut butter toast. What am I supposed to make of that? (And, yes, I am one of those people who shakes their head in disbelief at many modern and avant garden presentations of so-called "art".). This could be a VERY long discussion!!!
I do agree that some degree of imagination is important in art. Traditional hand-making skills not so much (for me, anyway), although I enjoy them when they are present in an artwork. I'm not sure I agree that Peanut Butter on Toast has no composition, skill or creative expression of the original object though. I think it has all of those elements! The materials he has chosen bring plenty of meaning in themselves, then you combine them with the representation of an everyday ephemeral cheap food item (toast and spread), which contrasts sharply with the permanence and grandeur of the material. And then there's the artist's intention, the story about the monks that inspired the work. And then there's Creed's own story as an artist. All of these layers I think bring something interesting to it (for me, personally) and speak of ideas of meaning and value in our world. Which is what I value the most in art. But I get that art is subjective, and everyone looks for different things and sees art differently.
Another brilliant post, Victoria. I really enjoyed your interpretations of Creed's work -- you bring such interesting perspectives and make me look in different ways. The You Return video made total sense after reading your summary and listening to Martin talk about what it all means for him. Loved it! Thanks
Thanks Helen... music to my ears ;-)
It’s so uplifting to see the affection you have for this artist. I’m going to have to find some more to read on him. Peanut Butter on Toast is amazing and for something so simple it connects in so many ways!
Here's a start, Amanda: https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2024/01/26/martin-creeds-latest-east-london-band-performances-reminds-us-how-music-is-at-the-centre-of-his-career
Thank you!
Really enjoying these philosophical and personal questions about art, Victoria. Creed’s multicoloured “everything is going to be alright” adorns the Christchurch main art gallery. We visited my brother-in-law’s family there when my son was just 10 months. It was a transitional time for me and I was also in the middle of a massive travel journey; I recall feeling so much comfort and joy in those words and just kind of kept staring at them. I don’t remember much else about the city to be honest. Not a knock, just to say sometimes the repetition you speak of strikes a human cord.
What a lovely story... did you know that the artwork was by Martin Creed or did you recognise it later? There's a piece by Creed at Tate Modern that I always see, which reads 'The Whole World + The Work = The Whole World' which I have seen and noticed for years and only recently found out it was by him.
I'm particularly bad at repeating things. I mean, it can be a problem for me sometimes!
Ha, yes I do this! But maybe repetition isn’t bad then. It’s a reworking or recontextualizing.
I had to Google Creed when I encountered the work. I knew there was a familiarity about it and then it sort of rushed back to me.
Repetition is a soothing thing for me sometimes, going over and over something even though I've worked it out a million times. Or counting the same numbers over again to calm down. That's what I mean by repetition being bad. If I was recontextualising or reworking something that would be an achievement, and sounds way better than what goes on in my mind!
I have always related to Martin's art and drawn to his authentic straightforward approach. Totally get the relief part as a maker but what kept coming up as I was listening to your piece was maybe he was searching for peace too and using his art making as a vehicle. I agree he has interwoven his life into making meaningful art. Really enjoyed listening to your point of view about his work and seeing examples to make it concrete. It was really good!
Thanks for your lovely words, Sadie. I agree with you, there's a search for peace which he doesn't seem to find. But every day he feels compelled to try. The way he speaks about it sounds bleak, but the works he produces are not.
Martin's everyday intention and consistency makes me want to cheer him on. I haven't heard him speak yet but look forward to hearing.
2 post here. Having had time to think I’d like to say that there seems to be a connection between Creeds nihilism and Calvinism. This fierce fundamentalist attitude to life is the backdrop of many religions but I’ve seen it play out first hand in extreme Protestantism.
Personally it’s too hard and even intolerant. I prefer to have a philosophy of eclecticism.
Can others reply to this please with their thoughts? D
Creed is pretty gloomy about life in the interview, but the art that he makes is more ambiguous than that, and in fact it often seems quite joyful rather than hard. That You Return piece, for example, doesn't seem hard or intolerant, it feels very hopeful -- and in fact embracing of the eclectic.
I know what you mean, Diana, although I'm not sure I would characterise Creed's expression as nihilism. I definitely get the sense that he struggles with his mental health, and art offers him the lifeline to keep on track. But perhaps I'm reading his words wrongly, I don't know. What I do think, however, is that the word 'relief' absolutely sums it up for me in terms of how I feel when I connect with an artwork. I hadn't ever thought of it with that word before but I works for me. I feel that most often with music, sometimes with visual art. It's a feeling that I can't explain but it just makes me feel connected to another person. Less lonely, maybe.
It might be interesting, but it isn't "art" in my opinion. Commentary, maybe, but not art.
Interesting, Sara. I would say all art is commentary of some kind, but would you agree with that? Could you perhaps expand on what fundamental elements you think art needs to have to be 'art' in your opinion?
Intriguing post. I think if one lives in fear as Creed seems to do, making art is one way of coping by exerting control through casting a kind of spell on the viewer. So Creed is right to say making art is like magic. That’s not the whole story but it’s a good part of it. But as his explanations went along I recognised that the works he talks about have a logic that is a strength .
I didn’t completely buy the hesitant awkwardness of his delivery. He has been in the game long enough to have worked his stuff out pretty thoroughly I would have thought. His songs and his band are terrific. Available on Spotify too.
I really liked the quality of the filming; very close up etc and the direct questioning style of the interviewer.
Yes, I liked the way it was filmed. It didn't occur to me to think that he surely has worked out his stuff, and I'm sure you're right about that. That does make it sound like he was performing a well-trodden narrative, which perhaps he was. It felt pretty raw though, and although I've heard him say that making the things he creates makes him feel better, I haven't seen him talk about it in such stark terms. I definitely think there is a logic to his work as you say, which I can see quite clearly now in way I hadn't before. I like the music I've heard, and his strong Scottish accent.
I upgraded to a paid sub because I really wanted to read this piece, as I'm trying to grapple with what art is and its place in my own life as well. I loved reading Creed's idea of what he does everyday. That's very cool. And relatable. I don't know if I experience art as relief, more so like a means to get myself into paradise, and when I'm out of that headspace it's like I've fallen from paradise. But maybe we're just using different words to describe the same experience.
Welcome! So glad you've joined our community! I think what you're describing is not a million miles away from what Creed is expressing, except his language seems to have a darkness about it, a place that he's pulling himself out from with the act of making. You might like to read this piece I wrote back in the autumn last year on a similar subject of the value of art for artists -- some of the links might be of interest https://www.thegallerycompanion.com/p/art-for-artists-sake
I liked the way you wrote about his work. It was more palatable and simplified what he was trying to say in the interview. I felt he went down rabbit holes and I was getting lost in his thinking! However I did find his attitude to his work reassuring and gave meaning and comfort in my own work process.
The You Return work no 1701 initially I felt uncomfortable, voyeuristic but then it became less about the individual and more about the way human beings are amazing how they just keep going. Perhaps the music was the key to getting across the determination in all of us to live.
I agree completely with what you say about the You Return work. It's uncomfortable viewing at first, which turns into something quite wonderful. I love how he has managed to incorporate those two ends in the same work, possibly without intending it.
So poignant , and clever ! Thanks for sharing this work and interview. There is definitely some ambiguity there in the video, its voyeuristic nature ….however the clever direction and funny music make the piece easier to digest!
I think his premise of finding a way to cope with everyday gloom is genius!
But I wonder is there something missing in this way of looking out rather than inwards ….I think of ‘Ascent of Man’…. And wonder …
I interpreted Creed as being quite inward looking and that he uses art to look out of himself. But I might be misinterpreting his words. What seems clear though is that the need to create enables him to deal with what he perceives. I also love the ambiguity in the You Return video - there's a point where it moves seamlessly from voyeurism to joy!
It’s clever and funny and thought provoking and helps me to feel better too.
Good!
Thanks for posting. It’s a relief not to feel that I have to produce to justify my existence as an artist. And Breathe…